NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/1840

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 11.0 KB

Path: news.mcs.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Eric Szulczewski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 16:29:45 CST
Organization: Principle of Obscurity BBS
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In a message dated 01-10-96 23-00 Gary Alan Peake writes:

GP> >What I was referring to in that last
GP> >fragment above was your feelings about whether I wanted the Amiga to
GP> >survive.  I want it to thrive, live, germinate, and grow in the hearts
GP> >and workrooms of the world.  I wanted to make that perfectly clear not
GP> >only to you (because I think you know that), but to the people out
GP> >there who might think that because I'm not "loyal" to AT, I'm against
GP> >the Amiga.  I'm no Marc Barrett or Sinclap, folks.

GP> I'd never believe that you were for a second! We just sometimes see
GP> different leaves sprouting from the same tree.

George Noel pooh-poohed my membership in Team AMIGA because he thinks
that I'm anti-Amiga.  Hell, I don't even own another box other than my
2000!  And I don't think that we're seeing different leaves on the same
tree, but we're disagreeing in the type of fertilizer that AT's
spreading on that tree.  You think it's SuperGrow; I think it's
bullshit.

GP> Maybe the difference between me and some here is that I believe them when
GP> they say they see a bright future for the Amiga and are going to make it a
GP> household name. So far, from a business standpoint (again, my opinion)
GP> they are making the right decisions for cashflow and R&D purposes.

That's where most of our differences lie in.  You're a natural
optimist; I'm not only a natural pessimist, but a cynic as well.  I
believe that only with specific correct moves, most of which I've
outlined in our discussion over the months we've had it, can AT get any
sort of foot in the door, especially in NA.  They have to design,
build, and properly market the proverbial better mousetrap, and
especially concentrate on the marketing.  I don't begrudge them the
cash they're earning; I just begrudge the fact that they seem to be
unwilling to spend money to make money (in the area of marketing, that
is; they've been doing it in other areas, including, apparently, R&D).

GP> We keep forgetting that Amiga Technologies/Escom has over tripled their
GP> initial investment. That's a LOT of cash just to make a run or two of
GP> computers and bail out. Nope, I don't see that happening unless the market
GP> dries up BEFORE they can get the R&D done.

I did the math a long time ago on that.  It is possible, of course, for
Escom to get out with a profit from their investments by selling out
the run they've already completed.  But it does look like they're in
for a slightly longer haul than that.  End of that argument, Gary.

GP> Why contract out the coding as they are?

Does that scare you a bit?  We're still not sure about the
subcontractor for the OS.  I'd love to know what AT told them about the
requirements for OS4.

GP> Why keep fervently looking for a NA 'partner'?

But in what capacity?  Financial?  R&D?  Mass-market distribution?
Or to eventually sell out?

GP> Why the 'Surfer Package' (that took extra money and time)?

Well, to make money, for one thing.  Only Oracle seems to be entering
that type of market right now.  The problem is that by providing a
full-fledged 1200 with the Net suite, the price is significantly higher
than Oracle's product.  And that Net suite had better be good, or the
Surfer package (what an awful name!) will fail.

GP> The first three months I would not have argued so strongly FOR
GP> Amiga Technologies. But, if you add up all these 'Why' type things
GP> you will begin to see that they DO have a plan.

They may have some sort of plan, but I'm still not sure what it is, AT
isn't volunteering information, and I have reservations about the parts
we do know about.  And I'm not alone, Gary.  You can tell just from the
posts here.

GP> >There are questions that have to be asked when it comes to this
GP> >subject.  We as Amiga users have incredible power over the decisions
GP> >made at AT due to the fact that we're the ones buying this system.

GP> True with 1 caveat! Amiga Technologies understands that we
GP> (Usenet/Fidonet) represents a SMALL minority of current/former Amiga users
GP> and an even smaller minority of current Amiga purchasers. Long term, our
GP> voice is important.

Well, I meant "we" in the sense of the larger community of Amiga owners
who have stayed loyal.  I don't pretend to acknowledge that
Usenet/Fidonet participants are a majority of those people.  We on the
nets are just the ones with the immediate feedback capability.

GP> For this year, Amiga Technologies should be chasing
GP> the new 'entry level' people with the 1200 Surfer Package. These entry
GP> level users now will be what adds to the current user base when the PPC's
GP> come out. THAT will make this a viable solution again.

But can AT cut through the M$ brainwash factory that "more power =
better"?  Or will the public see the 1200 package (I refuse to call it
"Surfer") as a toy?

GP> >I think that these questions are valid, but corporations, like any other
GP> >physical entity, tend to follow the path of least resistance:

GP> >1) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts out there, we are contributing to the
GP> >coffers of AT's R&D efforts.  But do we want outdated machines?
GP> >Especially with the PPC announcement.  Amiga owners are patient by
GP> >nature when it comes to the system.  How many people won't wait a year?

GP> See, made my point. We WILL wait a year. They are/should be chasing new,
GP> entry level buyers who will expand into that new PPC later on.

These are rhetorical questions, Gary...

I didn't make a point.  I asked a question about current Amiga owners,
since they're the only ones who seem to know about the 1200s/4000Ts.

GP> >2) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts, are we showing approval as a group
GP> >toward this technology, which most everyone here says is outdated?  If
GP> >we are, will AT also think we approve and delay, or even worse, not
GP> >really bother with the PPC for a while?

GP> No long term money can be made from current models. Those of us buying the
GP> new stock are just upgrading from 500-600 or ECS or we are the ones who
GP> wanted a 4000 and couldn't get one back when.

Again, rhetorical questions.  But you must admit that it's cheaper not
to do R&D if these models are selling.

GP> >3) If we wait and not buy the systems available now, will AT go
GP> >belly-up, in which case we'll never see a new Amiga system?  It looks
GP> >like Escom is looking to see whether or not AT will sink or float, and
GP> >if it starts to sink, will Escom pull the trigger?

GP> Nope, too much invested now.

Guess what I'm going to say?  You didn't have to answer these.  I just
wanted to clarify the questions that a lot of people are asking.

So a corporation is going to keep a money-losing subsidiary afloat in
order to lose more money?  I hope the German tax code is as lax about
businesses as the US's is.  That's the only reason I'd do something
like that.

GP> >I hope that none of these are true, and that AT does have the best in
GP> >mind for the Amiga, but illustrated like that, it is a no-win
GP> >situation.  The question has to be put out, and I hope that
GP> >Kittel/Bourdin can refute this line of argument.

Notice you didn't respond to this section, Gary...

GP> >Well, we can argue about the 1200 until the cows come home.  I don't
GP> >think it's "excellent", but it's good on a marketing standpoint for
GP> >attracting people to eventually buy the bigger systems.

GP> Again, my point exactly. And what better can it get (at it's level) than a
GP> web surfing ability. Again, an excellent entry level computer. Give em a
GP> taste of the Internet, then tell them next year how much faster, better,
GP> etc the PPC is. Migration right to the PPC this way.

It's not "excellent", dammit!  It's a deficient computer system from an
engineering standpoint.  It's a very draconian proposition.  It's feast
or famine with a 1200; either a user gets sick of its low capabilities
and lack of ease in upgrading and ditches Amiga, or upgrades.  A great
gamble, but one that could pay off.

GP> >The biggest market for the Amiga isn't NA, but NA is still the biggest
GP> >market in the world for computers (until the EU becomes a little more
GP> >technologically sophisticated and capable in all its member countries;
GP> >no insult, Eurofriends, because you have been catching up quickly, but
GP> >we in NA are still the biggest).  The PPC Amiga can make a killing
GP> >here, but there's a limited time frame.  It has to be done and
GP> >introduced prior to the abolition of the P6.  In order to make inroads
GP> >into the computer market, AT has to gain the worldwide acceptance of a
GP> >DOS or Mac box, and that means NA.  They can't focus simply on Europe,
GP> >unless they want to accept second-class citizenship in Cyberworld.

GP> Lot's of changes are going on with our brethren overseas and the way telco
GP> works, etc. I look for the European market to get much bigger on the
GP> Internet. The Surfer package will fit right in with that movement.

But you didn't answer my point about NA, did you?  That was only the
purpose of my statement, after all.  Until telecommunications systems
in the EU are fully deregulated and demonopolized, telecom there won't
grow as fast as you think.  My proof is Britain; it's virtually the
only point I agreed with the Thatcherites.

GP> >No, what I really want to see, Gary, was your justification on the
GP> >technological end of it all.  I wanted to see you fly through hoops
GP> >saying that this was the greatest thing in the universe and that
GP> >everyone at AT were geniuses for putting the 1300 out.  However, I
GP> >don't think you'd really do that, even if you are the most gormless AT
GP> >camp follower on occasion.  But the disguises are off.  If AT does the
GP> >1300 for money, that's perfectly fine and a good thing in the minds of
GP> >everyone here.  But trying to disguise that with other reasons would be
GP> >disingenuous.  Glad you and I both see it that way.

GP> Still think the Surfer stuff is going to do great! That in itself is
GP> something we've never had.

I don't think it's going to do as great as you think it is.  It's going
to be a fair-to-middling success at best.  It makes the fact that
they'd better not make any false moves with the PPC even more
important.

GP>  TEAM AMIGA is a grassroots
GP>  movement designed to provide
GP>  support to all Amiga users
GP>  and to Amiga Technologies!

Could you please define "support"?  Is constructive criticism part of
your definition (you yourself have even acknowledged that my criticism
has been uniformly constructive)?  The last thing Team AMIGA should be,
and I think that even Rick would agree, is a hotbed of monolithic,
uncritical opinion.  If Amiga owners didn't have differences with the
company that produced the machine, we'd be abandoning an eleven-year
tradition.

Eric Szulczewski
[e-mail]
Member, Team AMIGA
The Devil's Advocate


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